But then, what do the Turks know about international law and sovereignty? They are constantly shelling Iraqi villages in territory that does not belong to them and they deny even the most basic human rights to a significant proportion of their own population. How would they have reacted if a wave of incoming aid had been sent to the Kurds in the south-east and the convoy openly refused to cooperate with officials?
The murder of 10 'peace' activists was unjustified regardless of how hard they beat up the soldiers and also raised a few questions about the Israeli operation. The commandos are supposed to be professional soldiers who should be used to dealing with pressure instead of losing control and ending up with killing 10 people. Maybe I am watching too many Hollywood movies, but aren't several helicopters supposed to be utilised at once in order to get as many men on the ground, roof, or deck as possible at the same time as apposed to sending in one soldier at a time amidst a crowd calling for their blood. Surely the world-renowned experts in counter-terrorism would have assumed sending one at a time would have been asking for trouble.
The response to this mess has been just as baffling to me as the incident itself. 10 people are killed and instantly I receive messages from people I don't even know telling me to march outside the Israeli Embassy to protest this heinous crime. Yet when hundreds at a time get blown up to pieces at mosques and markets across the Islamic world, all in the name of 'Allah' of course, the response is a lot less dramatic. On Friday almost 100 innocent people were slaughtered whilst worshipping in a mosque in Lahore and no one sent me a text asking me to protest outside the Pakistani Embassy. Muslims on Friday killed roughly 10 innocent civilians for every activist killed by Jews on Monday.
The Israelis are even more confusing, because they apparently knew from Day 1 the flotilla was a convoy of hate filled with terrorists with links to Bin Laden and Hamas who were probably using this is a front for delivering weapons, but then they decide to issue the commandos raiding the ship with paintball guns?
28 comments:
Soldiers were sent down one at a time, because the IDF didn't think for even a second that the soldiers would encounter a lynch mob with long knives, iron rods, etc. I know it can be hard to imagine, but behind all of that IDF equipment are young men. Soldiers were stabbed, while another was thrown from the deck and the crowd was shouting "kill the jews, kill the jews...." "either we reach gaza or die as martyrs". Even professional soldiers can fear for their lives sometimes; they're not robots. If the IDF had any clue that they would encounter this resistance from violent "peace activists", they would not have only sent a few soldiers in. It would have been an entirely different operation.
I'm not saying that the blockade is OK, or that it is OK that Palestinians suffer, but this was nothing but a political provocation orchestrated by elements in Turkey, Hamas, "liberals," and the IHH.
Gaza flotilla participants invoked killing of Jews http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk
רייצ'ל,
Turkey & Hamas can go hell for all I care, that doesn't justify killing 10 people.
The IDF made mistakes.
Subhanallah, 3ashit eedak yaba. Took the words right out of my mouth!
Salaam, I am a research scientist trying to understand Iraqi bloggers. I would appreciate your participation by emailing me your responses to leishiraqia[@]gmail.com.
Your blog identity:
Is your blog name the same your true identity? Why?
Do you only blog in English? Why?
Did you blog about the Iraqi elections in 2010? Why?
Thank you very much for participating.
More details will be coming in about the raid these next few days, but as that happens we don't need commentary from an unapologetic, genocidal nationalist like Tayyip Erdogan.
Considering Turkey's treatment of the Kurds, you'd think the last thing thing they would want to draw attention to is "occupation" taking place in the Middle East.
It is actually pretty hard to invade a ship on the high seas from a single helicopter.
Using more helicopters is a good way to risk mid-air collision (remember the botched attempt to rescue US hostages in Iran, 1980).
Military movies are usually completely unreal, just as any other movies. The director and the players haven't usually served for a single day in military, let alone in commandos units. Also, dramatical action counts more in the theater than realism. (Remember, Haider, all the stereotypes and cliches trotted out when some Westerner tries to make a film about Arabs, without actually having ever been in an Arab country... it is the same with everything else.)
Nevertheless, it was a major error of the IDF to send the first wave soldiers equipped with paintball guns onto a ship with a sizable unit of Milli Gorüs fanatics. From that point on, the shit that happened was inevitable (being target of a lynch mob equipped with knives and iron is not fun, it is clearly use of a lethal force against you. Ever been stabbed, Heidar? Would you defend yourself with a gun in such situation, if it came to this?
It seems that the Israeli intels slept through and "expected" that the ship will be loaded with the usual mix of elderly hippies and mostly harmless young activists - without actually verifying that assumption. Instead, they got dozens of committed fanatics ready to die just to make a point.
Obviously not even Milli Gorüs are crazy enough to expect that they can defeat the IDF completely with a single ship and run the blockade to Gaza. Their aim was to create a huge international scandal, and they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. They played the Israelis like violin - WTF?
I can't see how Israel expects to survive unless they mend the problems in their intelligence service really fast.
I am not justifying the deaths. I'm simply point out that the first 5 boats did not have any casualties because they were not loaded with "peace" activists armed with light weaponry. While the IDF gravely erred, it was not looking to kill innocent civilians.The combatants on the boat did not react to IDF brutality - they clearly initiated the engagement. When soldiers were lowered down and realized what they were encountering, they didn't immediately open fire. You can hear soldiers trying to restrain themselves and shouting "hold fire, don't shoot". As the situation escalated, naval officers viewing the situation from above and from small vessels asked for permission to allow their soldiers to open fire because their lives -NOT the activists'- were in danger. The decision went through a chain of command first; it wasn't a case of trigger-happy soldiers.
Perhaps the world should consider that elements in Turkey, Hamas, and the IHH had something to do with these deaths.
Their goal was not to transfer humanitarian aid. On a DAILY basis, Israel transfers 5 times more than the meager amount that they brought.
Israel SHOULD be criticized for many of its ridiculous policies. I am a leftist that hates this government and the clowns that sit in it. However, I cannot tolerate the hypocrisy. Where was this global outrage when Iran deliberately murdered, raped, and tortured its own citizens after the elections (and continues to do so)? The examples are endless. Let's be honest and consistent folks. It's way too easy and fashionable to reflexively blame this solely on the IDF.
I agree, more than one side is to blame.
My point was why the inconsistency? Yes they were set upon by an angry mob but they should have seen those angry people when they were first setting off from Cyprus shouting 'khaybar khabyar o Jews, the Army of Mohammed will return' and they should have been ready to deal with this mess.
Yes when the point came to them being physically overrun by the mob (aka 'peace' activists) you are right, the outcome was inevitable. Israeli soldiers have shot people before who have done a lot less than beating them up and my grievance was the mighty Israeli war machine and brilliant intelligence which liquidates people in hotels in Dubai that SHOULD have anticipated and prepared for this. Maybe an upgrade from paintball guns to rubber bullets?
The Turks provoked them and should be the last to speak about human rights. The Palestinians can continue to mourn terrorists who butchered the people of the Iraq and as you've probably guessed, I don't like a single player in this game.
Even mighty war machines need to be oiled periodically. I assure you, the Israeli press is making the same points: Why wasn't the IDF prepared? The tentative answers (other than intelligence failure) are that since the first 5 boats were peaceful, they didn't anticipate this. Also, although the IHH is suspected of funding certain radical organizations, the military and political echelons were fooled when the IHH purported to be a humanitarian mission. Indeed there were genuine humanitarians on all of the boats, but they were cynically exploited. Aside from the questions related to assigning responsibility, the question now is what will happen when the next IHH flotilla arrives in a few weeks? This one seems to have "Turkey's semi-official participation in funding or organizing." See http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/activists-we-have-funding-for-another-larger-gaza-flotilla-1.293748
It was disgusting to hear Jawad Al-Bolani and other Iraqi officials speaking "in the name of all Iraqi people" and fawning over these terrorist sympathisers and Islamist supremacists, while ignoring what happened in Pakistan which the Iraqi people can so closely relate to.
Anon,
A very good point...just a few days ago, a hundred people were riddled with automatic weapons in Lahore and there has yet to be a major protest anywhere in the world.
A very interesting article. It is interesting that he quated the activists chanting "khaybar khabyar o Jews" What I am interested to know is what Hayder, the grandson of an important Islamic figure, thinks about Khayber and what prophet Mohammed did, killing hundreds of Jews in a very brutal way.
Ex muslim
Make no mistake about it, had a ship been attacked by the Iranian navy 40 miles out at sea the international community would have been up in arms about the blatant disregard for international law and the United States would have been the first to condemn the act of needless aggression against innocent civilians.
Actually there was some blockading going on during the Iran/Iraq war. I don't recall anyone trying to claim enforcement of those blockades was a violation of international law.
The Turks have every right to defend themselves against pinko terrorists in Iraqi Kurdistan.
They should wait until the U.S. abandons the Kurds, and then the Turkish military should go in.
Turks have a reputation for brutality, and they should put their skillz to good use here.
Jawad al-Bolani, the Iraqi traitor who supposedly condemned Israel, should remember that he is defending Israel in Iraq.
So all of your outrage is phony as long as you back the Zio-Crusaders on other fronts.
Do you remember in 2006 when Israel was destroying Lebanon with American weapons, while Iraqi Shia were hugging Americans in Baghdad?
Do you remember in 2006 when Israel was destroying Lebanon with American weapons...
The Turks use American weapons too, Dolly. But I guess that's OK when the American weapons are used to genocide Kurds. Because, Dolly says so!
I am a US citizen and a supporter of the Free Gaza Movement, which has been sending aid ships to Gaza for several years. This was the largest flotilla they have every had, so perhaps they were cynically used by Hamas sympathizers aboard the Turkish ship. However, they are avowed peace activists who have chosen, amongst all of the wrongs of the world, to devote themselves to this wrong - the illegal blockade of Gaza by the Isreali government.
Many of their supporters have been activists who were opposed to the US invasion of Iraq, as well as to the international blockade of Iraq under Saddam Hussein - so please, please do not paint the intentions of the peace activists as hypocritical.
We do not yet know what really happened on the Mavi Marmara. The Israelis have one narrative, but the activists, who were all taken into custody, those who were not killed, I mean, and effectively silenced for at least 24 hours while Israel put out its own propaganda. Now, they have to keep changing their story as more and more witnesses speak out.
Even the series of photos that the Israelis claim as proof that their soldiers were brutally attacked can also be seen as pictures of injured soldiers being attended to by doctors and others on the ship. There are no pictures of anyone having taken their "paintball" guns away from them and pointing them at them, are there?
There was no mystery as to who was on these ships for the IDF to be confused about - there are ship manifests and passenger lists, certified by several different organizations.
In the news accounts, statements by the IDF are simply taken as fact. Why? When the passenger accounts state otherwise - then someone is not speaking the truth. That is precisely why a third-party investigation is cucial. I, of course, am biased toward the words of the activists, who claim that it was NOT just paintballs that the invaders of their ship were shooting, because I believe that they did not want a military confrontation of this kind. The whole point of these flotillas is to raise awareness of the illegal nature of this blockade and to highlight how Israel is flaunting international law.
The fact that the people killed were all Turkish citizens breaks my heart, because of all of the issues that this stirs up, as evidenced here. As a person from the west, it is very hard to comprehend all of the intricacies of alliances in that part of the world. In the United States, these intricacies are very much glossed over, dumbed-down, one might say - "You're either with us or against us," was a very effective line for George Bush to use to gain support for his war of aggression on Iraq.
What I am getting at is to point out how our personal biases will blind us, unless we keep an open mind. I have already stated my bias, and I believe in the good intensions of the original organizers of this flotilla over the word of a government that has not yet admitted to the world that it has nuclear weapons and has the power to sway the media and the minds of those whose minds are already made up.
It also breaks my heart that the Pakistani killings happened in the shadow of this incident. It is not right that the deaths of some people are held to be of more import that the deaths of anyone else. But what is most important here, is that citizens around the world are working to stop these unneccessay deaths from happening at all, by changing how their governments work, and in the case of Isreal, there is alot of work to be done to convince the United States government that they should not blindly support everything that the Isreali government does any more than the people of all nations should blindly support their governments without questioning them and speaking truth to power.
If the Israeli commandos only had "paintball guns" as claimed by their government's propaganda PR machine, how did they kill all those people? Must have been hard with "paintball guns."
However, they are avowed peace activists who have chosen, amongst all of the wrongs of the world, to devote themselves to this wrong - the illegal blockade of Gaza by the Isreali government.
Many of their supporters have been activists who were opposed to the US invasion of Iraq, as well as to the international blockade of Iraq under Saddam Hussein - so please, please do not paint the intentions of the peace activists as hypocritical.
In other words, the only thing your group cares about is protesting the US and Israel. If y'all wanna call yourselves "peace activists" and "humanitarians" that's up to you, but I think I'll just call you "hate-mongers" :p
Clearly, not everyone who responded here actually read what was written. No one is claiming that the soldiers "only" had paintball guns. The issue is that there was an intelligence failure and the IDF went on expecting to encounter light resistance and to employ crowd dispersal methods, and hence they boarded the ship holding paintball guns. Yes, they had pistols as well for a worst case scenario.
Ms.Butler, there should be a distinction between the organizers of the flotilla and the hundreds of participants. This was not a monolthic group. There is a reason why this incident only took place on one ship. THis isn't the first flotilla to try to break the blockade; this is the first boat that violently resisted.
No, there aren't any videos of activists stealing the weapons, but please look at the Turkish HurriyetNews website that has articles in which activists actually boast that they stole the soldiers guns (in self defense of course). Bulent Yildirim, an organizer of the flotilla, also admitted that they stole the weapons. I would hope that the activists' testimonies in the Turkish press should constitute sufficient proof and perhaps even cause you to consider your instinctive tendency to label Israeli statements on the issue as propaganda. You say in your comment that "we don't know what happned" on the ship, but you've clearly already reached your conclusions for some reason.
As for the hypocrisy involved in the intentions of the "peace activist" and all of those who are so proud of Erdoguan, maybe the Turkish activists should concentrate on cleaning up their house first and promote the Turkish Kurds' cause or promote the recognition of the Armenian genocide, or a million other issues that EYE RAKI is bringing to our intention. But, unfortunatley, Darfur, the plight of Pakistani Shi'ites and other injustices simply don't grab headlines.
Also, something that has conveniently been ignored in all of the coverage of the blockade is the fact the Egypt is an equal partner in the blockade (whether illegal or not) and has received support from the PA and Arab governments. No one even reports when Egyptian police kills or injures Palestinians, and they do: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=115490§ionid=351020202 . Just another insignificant sidenote in this whole affair.
I don't support the blockade of Gaza as is in its current form. It is obviuos that the parties in the region need to figure out a way to prevent the ongoing smuggling of weapons into Gaza. But this isn't the issue that I'm writing about. I cannot tolerate the hypocrtical coverage of this event and the predictable responses. See this article that won't even make it to the front pages or main spots of news websites. It's about how Reuters got caught photoshopping out blood and knives in the pictures of the event that they published. In case you don't read the article, they also admitted to doctoring images of the coverage of the IDF attack on Hezbollah. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/reuters-under-fire-for-removing-weapons-blood-from-images-of-gaza-flotilla-1.294780
"The jew cries out in pain as he strikes you."
two great opinion pieces (by different authors) about what happened with the flotilla off the coast of gaza, from the kuwaiti daily al-watan:
1)
http://www.alwatan.com.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?Id=33482
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4354.htm
2)
http://www.alwatan.com.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?Id=34625
english translation of excerpts:
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4342.htm
MEMRI adds the following note at the end of the translation: "at a June 4, 2010 rally, Hizbullah secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah said that some papers in the Gulf had published papers supporting the IDF raid on the flotilla, but their authors were a minority that would be taken care of by people of honor. Al-Safir (Lebanon), June 5, 2010."
i couldn't find the as-safir article, but that's 3ady coming from nasrallah. terrorist.
also, here are some interesting articles in the turkish press:
1)
a june 7 article in hurriyet by turkish columnist semih idiz:
www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=much-to-ponder-for-turkey-and-israel-once-the-dust-settles-2010-06-07
2)
a june 7 article in hurriyet by barcin yinanc:
www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=how-can-one-be-proud-of-a-government-that-can8217t-protect-the-lives-of-its-citizens-2010-06-07
and highlights of both articles (originally written in english), with minor corrections in english for clarity:
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4367.htm
Human rights-abusing authoritarian Arab regimes support you...Wow, that's something to brag about.
"Human rights-abusing authoritarian Arab regimes support you...Wow, that's something to brag about."
who are you talking to?
Iran every so often uses artillery fire to bomb the civilian villages in Iraq and every so often kills some innocent civilians, which in contrast to Israel, it does not put any effort to discriminate between civilians and militants (the last one, killed a kid). As much as I remember no body declared a war against Iran, even in Iraq there was no protest in front of Iran embassy.
The IDF didn't "make mistakes", the IDF was looking for a fight.
Unedited footage of the attack can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY&feature=player_embedded
Ill comment on that in a second.
All this nonsense about this being a "terrorist" flotilla, who were well prepared and looking for a fight is nothing more than the sinking Israeli PR ship sending out an SOS.
Hayder, you're complaining about the double standards, what double standards? Your comparing two fairly irrelevant situations. What happens in Pakistan (despite being a tragedy in itself) is an internal issue, hardly engineered by the government. What happened in international waters was one nations flagrant disregard to both international law, and the lives of it's allies citizens.
When world leaders condemned the latter, its because it sets a precedent, the ability to do as you please in international waters. Furthermore, world leaders condemned it as it resulted in the death of several civilians on a humanitarian mission to deliver aid to one of the worlds most impoverished regions. Finally, Turkey is a NATO member, any attack on one NATO member is an attack on all NATO members. EU was obviously quite worried by this as should Turkey have raised the NATO flag, it would be legally binding on all other members to attack. An unwillingness to do so could effectively render NATO useless, and may well result in several nations exiting the alliance.
World leaders also took it as an opportunity to condemn the terrorist/supremacist state of Israel. They are fairly justified in doing so, but often muted by their powerful 'ally' across the pacific. The list of Gaza's suffering is staggering. Even notable Zionists Goldberg, Naom Chomsky, and Finklestien call the action of their brothers "war crimes", "crazy", "unacceptable" etc... Here are but a few of the statistics, all sourced, on the suffering of Gazans.
* In 2007, and after the siege, some 80% of Gaza's population was below the line of poverty (CIA world fact book)
* As of November 2009 Palestinians have only 26% of essential drugs, and 17% of essential disposables (WHO)
* Israel destroyed/damaged 15 of 27 Gaza hospitals (WHO)
* Destroyed/Damages 43 of it 110 primary health services (WHO)
* 29 of it 148 ambulances (WHO)
* None of which have been rebuilt as Israel specifically denies the entrance of building materials into Gaza (UN/WHO)
* 1441 Palestinian children killed since Sep 2000 (B'Tselem, does not include operation cast lead which saw another 400 or so vanish)
* 6348 Palestinians killed since sep 2000 (B'Tselem, 1300 operation cast lead additional)
* 39000 injured since sep 2000 (B'Tselem)
* 7838 political detainees without trial (Addameer Human/Prisoner rights)
* Majority malnourished/anemic (WHO)
* 24,140 homes demolished since 1967 (B'Tselem) These are usually done without forewarning or reasoning.
To condemn Hamas in the absence of a total and uncompromising condemnation of the state of Israel is hypocritical at best. Both have targeted civilians, but the former has shown far more restraint and far more willingness to stop any and all aggressions. Israel has at no point ceased settlement building, at no point ceased bombing, raiding, and destroying Palestinian areas. Hamas has on countless occasions proposed a peace process and has gone as far as a willingness to accept the state of Israel's existence in return for peace. Like it or not, they are the democratically elected leadership, and like it or not they have not so much as a fraction of the blood on their hands as Israel. Call them terrorists if you will (really, remind me which nation hasn't targeted civilians in a war so I can travel there and find myself amongst honorable men, I'm fairly certain Iraq's gov's track record out does Hamas's), but that does not excuse in any way or form the wholesale destruction of Gaza, or the suffering of their people. I could care less who rules if my family had access to the most basic necessities of life, water, food, shelter, security and dignity.
The footage I posted earlier shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people onboard the Mavi Marmara were unarmed, calm and collected, merely curious as to what was to happen next. At 36 minutes into the footage an Israeli Dinghy is seen rushing towards the boat, firing glass filled paintballs, grenades, and live fire (notice the ricochet and flashes from the impact of the bullets). It was provoking and had the desired effect of enraging those on the boat, who had with them their woman, children, and elderly. I don't see the point of debating this, the dust has settled, the culprits unmasked, and even Israels most ardent supporters are having difficulty brushing this one off.
A more productive approach would have been to outright condemn them (Israel) without reservations, and condemn those who kill our brothers in the name of Islam, and as a direct result of their ignorance. Enough pressure and isolation will result in Israel collapsing as an apartheid state, and like South Africa, integrating with the Palestinians to form a peaceful productive and secure state. I trust we both know that in the absence of that, Israel awaits a far worse fate at the hands of her many surrounding enemies in the future, and in the event of an American collapse, so the former is really a far better option for all.
Salam
Eye Raki
During the 1980-88 war, both Iran and Iraq declared each other's ports to be under siege and proceeded to attack and sink any international ship attempting to reach each other's ports.
it was called the "tanker war" and Iraq especially killed hundreds of foreign sailers and sunk dozens of foreign owned ships.
nobody really condemned either iran or iraq for that... hell Iraq even hit a US Navy frigate and killed 37 US Navy sailors and got away with it...
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